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Author Topic: Limited slip freewheel  (Read 3036 times)

StefanN

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #15 on: 29 July 2020, 01:41:17 am »
In case it’s helpful, Gemini have the steel adapter plates with the same hole pattern as the pit bike wheel - already cut and pennies to buy.  These were designed to allow kart hubs to be used on pit bike wheels but might be helpful if mild steel will suffice for the LSF “limited slip freewheel”.

Adrian

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #16 on: 01 August 2020, 08:52:06 pm »
Yes Stefan I was thinking that myself. I have some of those adapter plates for Rhys' Bloody Mary and the thought did cross my mind. I didnt make it very clear in the drawing that the outer plate need fixing to the axle of course. (I am still debating the best way to do that).

The one for my Renault is needed now as she is ready to go (except I can't figure out the wiring for the electric start now). I was shown what to do yesterday but got a little confused when trying to do it today.
The live to the motor from the battery gets too hot so I need a thicker wire and I dont have any to hand so it will have to be Monday.

Ron

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #17 on: 02 August 2020, 09:33:04 am »
It shouldn't cause any bother being a mild steel disc, a car brake disc/flywheel is nodular cast iron for instance which isnt any better!

Adrian

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #18 on: 02 August 2020, 10:32:03 am »
Thats very true Ron.
I think I might just get some made using mild steel. The relative rpm is so low I cannot see how it could do any harm.
If the friction material is drilled and and the resulting holes counter bored to clear the rivets i could rivet it in place on the plate attached to the wheel.
I'll drop the friction man an email and see if he can supply the appropriate rivets too.
That would cost less too.
Many thanks.

Adrian

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #19 on: 07 September 2020, 09:06:02 pm »
Well its a long time now since I posted anything on this subject. There has been a lot done to simplify the design. The latest design does away with the spring and loads the pressure plate up using a threaded bolt in the end of the axle. If it works it will be fitted for the next meeting and I'll post everything here.
I do need to have a 12mm threaded hiole in the end of the axle and I have been looking at threaded inserts (like helicoils) that you can screw into plain drilled holes (£6.50 a go) so should be good! :)

Adrian

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #20 on: 09 September 2020, 08:32:43 pm »
I have never been one to use a few words when a thousand will do and it seems, I'm a bit like that with ideas. I always seem to find a complicated solution when all the time there is a simpler one staring you in the face!

If we  are allowed to go to the gokart track next month I will demo it.

The latest design allows for quick and easy adjustment in the pits. Also, when you brake, both wheels brake at the same rate. Stamp on the brakes and both lock-up, slow down and both wheels slow at the same rate yet the 'diff' works fine.

The friction materials are however important and either a very hard (high carbon) steel or cast iron must be used for the plate against which the friction material rubs. The plate onto which the friction material is glued should be mild steel because it requires a little welding.

30mm shaft or 25mm shaft it matters not.

Bet thats got you thinking?

More importantly, it should cost around £40 to our members-only of course otherwise it might be £40 cost plus £40 profit plus retailers margin of 100% plus 20% VAT, £192! 

Worth every penny!

sylvaman

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #21 on: 23 September 2020, 05:28:13 pm »
Hi Adrian, i would like to order/ relieve you of one of your Lim Slip units .  If that is possible .

Let me know ,and how you would like payment.

Regards, Chris

Adrian

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #22 on: 25 September 2020, 09:21:12 pm »
Hi Sylvaman.
Many thanks for the order, I can feel great riches coming my way! Soon we will be whizzing around the dirt oval with both driving wheels gripping as they should, leaving everybody in the dust!

Mine is nearly on the Renault at last. I have been busy on my Singer Nine, spending a lot of time with Rhys who has been fantastically helpful to me, even giving me garage space for the car until my new garage (container) arrives.

So, the version I am making now requires the end of the axle to be threaded for about 50mm. Whilst I have a 30mm die it needs to be done on a lathe and I cannot get the 30mm axle through my headstock so its off to the machine shop on Monday. Then it will be two weeks. Then I can set it up and try it out.

The 30mm thread on my Cyclkart carries a plain nut that tightens the two clutch plates together. unitil you have tightened it so much that you can hardly turn the wheel. A second nut, locks the first. The pressure on the friction surfaces can be adjusted to suit the conditions and track surface by simply tightening or loosening the nuts. So we need no spring now or fancy arrangements at all.
Rhys came up with a way of avoiding the necessity for the big thread and nuts and it twork on any size axle so Rhys, you Rock! (as Felix on YouTube would say). Simply drill and tap a 12mm hole in the end of the axle and fit a suitable 'washer' to clamp everything together.
Simplze.
I think this calls for a drawing to expalin it so I'll try to do one.
Anyway, it uses one mild steel plate with the friction material bonded to it (making up the driving plate) and a high carbon steel discs for the driven plate, (mild steel does not work, it picks-up and locks the discs together).
About 30mm of tubing to suit the axle diameter is welded to the driving plate disc and a bit of keyway steel is used to transmit the dive from the axle. The driven plate is the same size as the driving plate but is fixed by machine screws to the wheel hub.

It's up to you whether or not you fit a bronze bush in the hub. I am, together with a roller thrust washer to take the side load.  Just feels right somehow.
Anyway, that's how its done. I am happy to make them up or just supply the bits and you can also contact the friction materials company yourself if you want too.
See you all soon (hopefully).

StefanN

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #23 on: 26 September 2020, 11:08:34 am »
Nice work developing this Adrian.  Drilling the end of the axle is a pain but I guess it doesn’t have to be perfectly central for this application.  I don’t have access to a lathe that’s big enough so I used a pillar drill and although it took longer to set up, it’s pretty much concentric.

Looking forward to seeing the detail in the drawing.

Marek.Z.N

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #24 on: 26 September 2020, 04:46:40 pm »
This is very exciting! A differential which you have designed and worked on. Thats something we havent seen much of in cyclekarting. also really interested to see how much of a performance difference it makes. having a way of locking it would be interesting so you could do a hot lap of stretton with and without it engaged to see what difference it makes.

really interesting stuff. cant wait to see it

Ron

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #25 on: 30 September 2020, 06:34:20 pm »
Just thinking there that the same principle could be applied to a peerless diff where one half shaft is friction locked to the alloy body of the diff, plenty of food for thought.

Adrian

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #26 on: 03 October 2020, 09:32:38 pm »
At last I have done the drawing which shows the easier way of loading the pressure on the clutch plate. I hope it make a bit of sense?
There are a couple of things that I have added, A thrust washer and the plain bearing. I don't think the plain bearing is necessary really and the hub would need boring out too.
It would be easy to set-up. I think a shallow hole in the axle where the locking screw goes might be worth drilling. Once in place the drive plate won't move side to side and the key will prevent it from rotating.

The 'pressure screw' forces a plate or strip of steel against a short section of tube which fits snugly on the axle and up against a thrust washer on the outside of the hub.
The second graphic shows the set-up I am using on my 30mm diameter axle with an adjusting nut and locknut.

StefanN

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #27 on: 03 October 2020, 11:18:33 pm »
Nice work Adrian.  I’m looking forward to seeing it in action.

Adrian

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Re: Limited slip freewheel
« Reply #28 on: 04 October 2020, 11:42:47 pm »
ME too!